‘The Olympic Games are chaos… but I’m happy with chaos’

What have you been up to this week?

Well, not a lot! I caught Covid on the last day of the Games. So I've just been recovering from that and catching up on sleep, and getting my washing done, sorting out the house, boring stuff! 

A well-earned break, I should think! What were the Games like for you?

Oh, they were amazing. They're always just such a great experience. It's chaos, but in a really good way. Highs and lows throughout, naturally. But I look back on it just having loved the whole experience, despite some of the very long days – a month of working non-stop and some definite challenges along the way. But on the whole, it was just amazing. 

You say they're always this way… how many Games have you done?

One previous Summer Games and one Winter Games, which is different again. So, yeah, this was number three. I'm addicted.

Take me back to the call to be Lead Sports Psychologist for Team GB. How does something like this come about?

They do it per Olympic campaign. So I was lead for Paris, and it's a secondment agreement. So I work for the UK Sports Institute usually, but they allow me to go to the games and do some prep work in the lead up to it. I applied for the role, had the job interview, and then got offered it, which was amazing. That was the start of the Paris Olympic Psychology program.

What do you think made you the best candidate for it? I know you speak other languages, you're well-traveled… do things like that come into it?

Probably not so much for this Games. The Games, it's a very unique environment, and it doesn't suit everyone, and that's just the reality of it. So they look at getting the right sort of person into that role. I'm quite happy with chaos. I am quite able to adapt quickly to what's around me, and also to fit in and build relationships really quickly. And I understand the unique demands of an Olympic Games and what it takes from that role as a psychologist. Hopefully, I was able to demonstrate that in in my interview, and I think that put me in good stead.

Talk me through that chaos during the Games… unexpected challenges?

You can do all the planning in the world, and something will happen that you haven't planned for. Being able to think on your feet, remain calm, keep that perspective and act quickly, but in a way that doesn't increase the noise in the environment, is important. It's trying to put the fire out before it really gets going. That is really the main job of a psychologist in the Games environment.

From a viewer's perspective, it seemed there was quite a lot of psychology around how our athletes reacted to relative disappointment… maybe a silver when they had planned for a gold, or just missing out on the medals. Some talked about having executed their own plan, and if for example they had done a personal best, there's not much more you can do?

It's a tricky one, I think, because sometimes the difference between a gold and a silver is the smallest of margins and what those athletes have achieved, medal or no medal, is incredible. What you don't see at the Olympic Games is the rest of their career that has gone into getting them to that point. I never really feel like the medals are fair representation of the ability of these incredible athletes out there competing. But as a sports psychologist, what we do try is to have them be more process-focused. Then there's a clear set of behaviours that they have much more control over than the outcome itself. Because, like you rightly said, you can go and PB and that still might not get you on the podium, but you cannot do better than that, really. Trying to get athletes to think about it in that respect is, in my opinion, more helpful for them actually going to go and PB, or medal as well.

I remember hearing Roger Black talking about losing to Michael Johnson, of all people. He was saying, if silver is being a loser, there are an awful lot of losers at the Games.

Exactly. And those that win the medals, that's the tiniest proportion. The challenge is that pretty much every athlete goes in thinking that they can and will win the medal, so often anything but that is disappointing for them. They need that mentality, otherwise they wouldn't be successful… but it can bite them in the bum. 

You're often talking about the smallest of margins in terms of success and striving for that, so you have to also accept the smallest of margins in defeat. 

How much of sporting performance is psychological? I'm reminded of Pete Olusoga's podcast, Eighty Percent Mental. What kind of figure would you put on it?

I wouldn't like to put a figure on it to be honest with you! There's also variance: a sport like shooting or archery, the physical side is important as well, but when you get to that level, what's differentiating them is how well they manage their mind. But across the board, physically, there isn't that much that separates those elite level athletes. Probably what does separate them is their mindset and being able to manage that and deliver the right sort of mental game as well as physical.

How psychologically literate are these people? I get the impression, increasingly so in recent years. Do you find that they know everything you're going to say to them before you say it? Or are they just desperate for that professional psychological input?

It really varies. Everyone's individual. Some of them are incredibly literate, and others blissfully unaware. And I'm not sure which is better, to be honest… sometimes the ones that are not the most psychologically aware are very successful, because you can say to them 'At this point, do this', and they just do it. They don't get caught up in overthinking or over-analysing, and that isn't a bad thing. But on the whole I think it is helpful to have that psychological awareness and understanding of your mind and how it works. And these athletes, I might understand how the brain works better than they do, but they can apply it much better than I could. And then they are training that day in, day out. So whenever I work with an individual I say, 'I can teach you these principles, but you need to go away and apply it in a way that works for you, and come back and talk to me about how you do that'… then we just refine it as we go along. 

I've always loved that tension between the need to think about this, and to mentally prepare, etc, etc, but don't overthink it. That came up in my recent article on movement in sport. That line between thinking and letting go of the thinking must be quite a challenge?

Yes… and there's this myth that I hear a lot, of 'you can just not think'. To this day, I still hear coaches and athletes saying, 'I just need to not think about it, and I'll be fine'. Brilliant, but I have yet to find anyone who knows how to just stop thinking. So it's always a bit of a battle to try and get them to the place where they can accept they're going to have thoughts, and actually, if they don't waste time trying to not think, and waste energy trying to not think, they're actually able to then focus on the things that matter in that moment. It's a bit of a learning journey. Every athlete that I speak to wants to not think, and they genuinely think that's possible when they come and speak to us. It's that education of, no, we can't turn your mind off. This is what we need to do instead. 

I know you were mentored by Steve Peters, famous for the Chimp Paradox. How influential has an approach like that been in speaking with athletes?

The Chimp Paradox is really popular. Whether it's totally scientifically accurate or not, that's another matter. But what it has done is given a vehicle, a language that can help people start to think about and understand a really complicated thing – how our brain is working. I wouldn't use the chimp model now, but many athletes do read it, so if someone comes to me, I can at least go, 'okay, how might this be actually playing out for you?' It just gives them the language to explain and understand some of what might be happening in their mind. In that sense it was a positive move for psychology, but we'd like to see the evidence base a little bit more. 

That shared language is important, though, isn't it? Because if you go back 20, 30 years, to how sports psychology was viewed – particularly within football – there was a lot more mystique and misunderstanding than there perhaps is now in a context such as the England football setup.

Yes, and it's taken a long time for us as a profession to get the message across that we're not here to fix problems. We're not here because there's something broken in you or something wrong with you. We're actually here to enhance your performance and work with what is already working and make it even better. There's been a big push to change the understanding around that, and it's definitely moving in the right direction. Certain environments unfortunately still have that view that you don't talk to the psychologist, because that's a sign of weakness… but within Olympic sport that that's quite a rare view nowadays. It's really commonplace to have a psychologist within your program… it's just part and parcel of what you do in your training week. That has been a really positive shift, but I think we've still got more as a profession to do to help demystify sports psychology.

Within your psychological toolbox you used during these Games, what's your favorite method or technique?

I work with an ACT framework – acceptance and commitment therapy. That's the predominant lens through which I see my work. There's a tool called the 'Choice Point' that I use, which I learned on a course from Russ Harris. It's a really simple way of understanding how you want to be and how you get there. 'This is what my ideal looks like, and the behaviors are this, this and this. This is what happens when I get pulled away from that ideal. And here are some of the unhelpful thoughts, feelings, memories that might hook me and pull me away'. And then the flipside of that is 'What are the strategies that I use when some of those unhelpful thoughts and feelings show up to make sure that I don't get pulled away, and to make sure that I can stick to my best on that day.'

I'm good friends with Frank Bond, who also works within an ACT framework. He used to explain that to me as 'Jon, you need to find your cliff and jump'. I used to think, you need to find a new metaphor in a mental health context…

Do you find yourself having to apply your techniques to things that feel like they're going beyond the sporting arena? There was a lot of talk in the Paris Games around the social media side of things that athletes have to deal with.

It's all part and parcel, really. We wouldn't necessarily just be talking about what they're doing in that 100 metre race, for example. There's a real clear acceptance now that wellbeing and performance go hand in hand. Whilst I don't work in the clinical space, there's still a lot that we can do as sports psychologists to help individuals have good wellbeing and good mental health. So we do put an emphasis on that, as well as the performance side of things.

I've read that you are pretty sporty yourself?

Well, when I was younger, I was a competitive figure skater. I don't skate anymore, actually, but I think it's probably why I am a sports psychologist, because I could have really done with me when I was when I was younger! But I retired from skating and I went into freestyle skiing, which was a very fun world, but definitely for a younger individual. At that point, I thought, I better go get a real job. Sports Psychologist sometimes doesn't feel like a real job either, but that's why I got into the sports psychology side. Now, I ski still, and then do whatever I can inbetween. But I'm not as sporty as I used to be.

I wish I'd gone into sports psychology when I was in academia, really. I always think psychologists don't necessarily get that advice early on – to find an area of psychology that fits with their personal interest. It sounds obvious…

You know, my undergrad degree was at Cardiff University. There wasn't a single module in sports psychology. It just wasn't a thing, really. I think nowadays it might be in more undergrad degrees, but I'm not sure. 

What would your advice be to undergraduates potentially starting out on their journey in sports psychology?

Be prepared for a bumpy road. It's very competitive – there aren't as many jobs as there are people wanting to work in the space. So you do have to work really hard, and it's not easy. Especially in those early years, after your masters, going into sports environments, you think that everyone is going to welcome you, arms wide open, but some people are still very apprehensive. That's quite an adjustment. You have to be ready for some rejection and some tough times. But if you can weather that, then it's an amazing career. It's worthwhile sticking at it. 

Was there a moment in Paris that made it all feel worthwhile, that made you think, 'this is why I love this'?

I always just feel so grateful. And my job is to sit and watch sport, basically, and you're doing that on the biggest stage in the most exciting competition in the world. Sat there in that stadium, with the atmosphere and the environment, watching GB win gold, or just watching GB compete, it's beyond worth it. 

Our deputy editor Jenn went out there and said, you just can't understand what it's like to see the athletes up close… just running around and jumping over a hurdle.

Exactly that. I don't work in athletics normally, but I was at athletics a fair bit this time, and being at the warm up track, they're running and doing the hurdles, and you don't realise how fast and powerful they are when you watch it on TV, because obviously everyone else is as fast and as powerful! When you're stood next to them, you can relate to just how impressive it is. That's an extreme privilege, to be pitch side. 

That's why some people have argued that every Olympic event should have one 'normal' person in, so you can see the difference! 

Your company is Mind For Performance. To what extent does the work that you do translate to other domains beyond sport?

We do quite a lot of work outside of sport, in the corporate space as well, because the sort of performance psychology is equally applicable. An athlete's brain is not actually that different to a CEO's brain, for example, or anyone's. The skills that we teach in the sporting arena are really applicable in the corporate arena as well. I work with individuals and companies and teams to help them perform optimally, and self-development to coach people through whatever it is they are wanting to achieve and might be struggling with. That's what sports psychology has to offer the 'real world' – how to perform optimally. We don't need to be stuck in this place of 'I'll just see a psychologist when I'm languishing on struggling'… people can actually get more out of themselves through using some of these tools and techniques.

What next for you… after you've recovered?

That's a really good question. I don't know. I really don't know. I need to get some proper time off. I've got two weeks off coming up, and it will be good to properly unwind, recharge, and then think about what might be next. I'd quite like to go to LA because Snoop Dogg's going to be there, and he's cool! So that might be fun. But we'll have to wait and see. Anything can happen. With the Olympics, we live our life in four year chunks, which is a bizarre way of being. And four years is a long time. But the beauty of this cycle is we've got four years, whereas after Tokyo [due to the Covid postponement], we had three years, and that felt really compressed. I've got a bit of time to reset and think about next steps.