‘The immense stress and trauma caused by immigration measures are violations of dignity and humanity’

Please note: Professor Suman Fernando's contributions to addressing racial injustice are referenced in this interview. Since it took place, he has sadly passed away. A reflection on his legacy is included at the end.

What initially drew you to the field of psychology, and how did it shape your career path?

I grew up with parents who left their Indian and African suns behind to create better opportunities for their children, sacrificing and striving at every step. In West London, I observed diverse worlds and was often immersed in the vibrant culture of Southall Broadway – listening to sacred meditations at the mandir before they became Western 'mindfulness' and enjoying jalebis and samosas instead of cake and custard. This cultural foundation shaped who I am today and continues to connect my personal, political, and professional worlds.

My journey into psychology began when I was 17. Initially, I had planned to pursue a career in dentistry – which in hindsight was perhaps a more straightforward path! – but everything changed when I was introduced to this new world of Psychology through my A-levels, and where I learned a place where thought, experience and knowledge could be understood and explored.

I've always been a thinker, and psychology gave me a framework to channel that curiosity. After completing my undergraduate degree, I was eager to dive into the field. The day after graduation, I walked to every psychologist's office in London. Eventually, I was offered work with children and young people on an oncology ward. My first ever supervisor in psychology mentioned something that has stayed with me till today, they said, 'Bhavna, this will take you ten years. Are you ready?' Without hesitation, I said yes. That to me was the first day of the journey that I am still on… it has been more than ten years!

Every day since has been a step further into my purpose, a path of meaning and growth, where I continue to deepen my craft and offer my best to the people I work with. The real value lay not in reaching an endpoint but in the ongoing process: expanding knowledge, questioning ideas, conducting research, and refining expertise. This led me to pursue a doctorate, and interestingly, it was not until in my third year, I realised that learning the power of my ancestry is integrated into my position as a psychologist. It has equipped me for service development for young refugee and asylum-seeking children, as well as disaster research.

Tell me more about that.

My passion for much of my work is deeply rooted in my ancestral history and its connection to disaster narratives, such as my grandparents' forced migration from Punjab during the 1947 partition of India, a consequence of British colonial rule. These stories of partition, colonial violence, and forced migration have shaped my dedication to fostering inclusive and accessible healthcare systems for all who have endured disasters.

What are some of the systemic barriers you've observed in the field of psychology that you think make it less inclusive?

The systemic barriers to inclusivity in psychology are deeply rooted in its colonial history and interconnected systems of oppression. Psychology as a discipline was built within institutionally racist frameworks (Fernando, 2017), and it continues to perpetuate inequities through its entanglement with other systems, such as healthcare, education, policing, and social care. These interconnected systems reinforce one another, creating a cycle of exclusion and disadvantage for marginalised communities.

I see the barriers falling into three main areas: the clinician, the history, and the institution. These elements are intertwined, with history informing the practices of clinicians and institutions, in turn, shaping the experiences of clinicians and those they serve. 

These barriers have taught me the importance of fostering meaningful connections and creating spaces where people are seen and valued for who they are. Inclusivity in psychology cannot be achieved through representation alone – it requires actively dismantling oppressive systems, interrogating the field's colonial legacy, ensuring equitable access to opportunities for all and recognition for the work done. We are not tick boxes.

Can you share a particular piece of work, research, or clinical experience that has deeply influenced your practice or worldview?

In 2017, I had the honour of attending a lecture by Professor Suman Fernando on institutional racism within the mental health system. This lecture was a turning point for me. It brought clarity to experiences I had struggled to articulate; the moments of difference and exclusion I had faced were not simply the silences overpowering them. Instead, they were reflections of the institutional racism deeply embedded within the psychological and psychiatric system.

Professor Fernando's work highlights how institutional racism, and colonialism continue to shape practices. He emphasises how Eurocentric frameworks dominate the field, often marginalising the needs and voices of racialised communities. Through his writings, Fernando advocates for culturally appropriate care and the decolonisation of mental health systems, calling for equity and inclusivity in policy and practice. His perspective resonated deeply with me, and I found his insights echoing in my mind as I grappled with what I was witnessing in my work.

That same year, the United Kingdom witnessed one of its most tragic disasters: the Grenfell Tower Fire. I remember walking into work after seeing the news in the morning, I was the only Brown person and Londoner in the office. I looked at the faces around me – faces that said nothing, did nothing – and I felt a deep sense of unease. How could we remain silent in the face of such devastation as professionals? How could a system claim to serve people when it didn't seem to care about them?

The combination of Professor Fernando's lecture and then the Fire allowed me to recollect on Professor Fernando's work describing how the psychological discipline is essentially one that was developed during the time of race-slavery and colonialism. For example: we will often speak about Carl Jung's contributions to psychology, but rarely do we interrogate the problematic aspects of his work, such as the racist theories perpetuated (Sennik, 2023). This lack of critical engagement perpetuates a one-sided narrative, ignoring the harmful ideologies embedded in the field's history. 

Jung (1930, p.139) writes: 'The Psyche of (white) Americans is liable to be pulled down by racial infection of living too close to primitive Black people'. Statements like this reveal how racism wasn't just a peripheral issue in psychology's history but was silently woven into the theories and frameworks that shaped the field. Yet, many training programs still fail to engage critically with this history or to teach about pivotal figures like Naim Akbar, Professor Suman Fernando, or Frantz Fanon. Instead, we are often left to seek out these vital perspectives independently. Even when individuals overcome these educational gaps, institutions fail to create environments where voices are genuinely valued or heard.

So where does this leave us in the world when something like Grenfell has occurred? 

It leaves us in a broken world and leaves a choice on what to do next. We may be relatively small compared to the larger sphere encompassing us, but we possess significant potential in our perspectives on the world and our capacity to effect change. For this, I carry the stories of the Grenfell residents with me and remain committed to standing by them. 

Did your research on Grenfell play a role in leading you to create the NHS service for Children and Young people seeking asylum?

Yes, my research on the Grenfell Tower Fire inspired the creation of the Children and Young People's Service for those seeking asylum. My research explored the lived experiences of Grenfell Tower residents, in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower Fire. Using Interpretative Phenomenological Analysis, I analysed the data to gain deeper insights into the complexities of lived psychological experiences following disasters, with particular attention to the contextual themes of race, racialisation, systemic violence, coloniality, and justice.

Whilst I was a trainee, I was also working full time in the NHS as CBT therapist within the Children who are looked after team in CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services). I noticed a significant gap in care. While there were referrals for children seeking asylum, there were no specialised or integrated pathways to address their needs post-disaster. 

This lack of targeted support, combined with insights from my research, motivated me to develop a service tailored specifically for this vulnerable population. The service aimed to understand the relationship between diasporic backgrounds, risk factors, and psychological presentations, while also addressing the broader challenges these children face, such as racism, political violence, and institutional neglect.

What are the implications of the UK's current immigration policies on the mental health and well-being of refugee children, and how can services better address these issues?

The death of Abdulfatah Hamdallah, a 17-year-old who drowned trying to cross the English Channel in 2020, is an example of how forced migration and policy impacts vulnerable populations. It highlights the systemic inequalities in European immigration policies and the hostile environment that many asylum-seekers face. For children, this environment creates immense stress, often compounded by the trauma of their journey; whether that's escaping war zones, torture or surviving dangerous crossings or facing the hostility in their new homes.

In my work, I've seen the direct impact of these policies. After the closure of the Dubs Amendment in 2017, which initially aimed to resettle unaccompanied refugee children, many young people were left navigating the asylum system alone. They live in fear of Home Office interviews or deportation, and this uncertainty often leads to severe anxiety, distress, and, in some cases, risks to their safety.

One example is the decision to use X-rays for age assessments in asylum cases, forcing young people to undergo unethical and unnecessary medical procedures – like bone density tests – to determine their age. The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health has firmly rejected this practice, and for good reason. Children and young people I work with are often terrified of what will happen if they refuse these assessments, as the consequences can be deportation or rejection of their asylum claims. It's yet another layer of anxiety and mistrust added to an already traumatic experience. 

Policies like the Rwanda deportation policy, while initially proposed as a deterrent, faced significant criticism for its inhumanity. This policy created enormous anxiety for the young people I worked with, who feared the possibility of being forcibly relocated to a country they had never known. In May 2024, in South London, where I work, immigration raids targeted housing associations where many young people resided, worsening their suffering. While the recent overturning of this policy on human rights grounds offers a small step towards justice and hope, the immense stress and trauma caused by such measures are violations of dignity and humanity.

These policies send a message that their lives don't matter, and I think this connects to my previous point of how each system of oppression or injustice perpetuates the other. These policies compound that suffering and make it even harder to feel psychologically safe. It makes settling and rebuilding impossible for many refugee and asylum-seeking children.

Every child deserves safety and stability. The current system is failing these children, but we must stand up for these young people and ensure they receive the care and respect they deserve.

What insights did the Grenfell Inquiry provide about systemic failures and their impact, and how can professionals help address these issues?

I remember the morning of the fire, watching the news as Jon Snow conducted interviews. One interview that stood out was with a young boy from the community, visibly in shock, who spoke about how the news helicopters were flying over the burning building but not offering any help. Another decisive moment came from Akala's interview with Jon Snow on Channel 4 News. His words stayed with me at the time and today: 'The people who died and lost their homes, this happened to them because they are poor. We are in one of the richest spaces not just in London, but in the world. Repeated requests were ignored. There is no way rich people live in a building without adequate fire safety. Everyone I spoke to who was out there couldn't hear alarms; there was no sprinkler system.'

In 2024, seven years after the fire, the Grenfell Tower Inquiry confirmed precisely that. Decades of deregulation, poor oversight, and cost-cutting had created the perfect conditions for the tragedy. Residents raised safety concerns about Grenfell Tower for years, but their voices were consistently ignored. That negligence and the failure to listen to those who lived there is the reason this disaster happened. The community, residents, and loved ones who were lost already knew this.

One of the most shocking revelations from the inquiry was how some companies knowingly sold unsafe materials. Manufacturers like Arconic and Celotex marketed highly flammable cladding while providing misleading information about its safety. Profits were prioritised over lives. And this wasn't an isolated incident – it was part of a broader culture in the construction and housing sectors that repeatedly overlooked safety in favour of cost-cutting.

Equally concerning was how unprepared the system was to respond to the fire. The inquiry highlighted critical failures in evacuation procedures, the 'stay put' policy, which ultimately affected the fire brigade's overall crisis handling. Significant gaps in communication, training, and readiness left people even more vulnerable in an already dire situation.

What do you think needs to change, and how can professionals help in terms of Grenfell?

Accountability. People died because of these failures, and it's not enough to just promise to change – we need to see it. Building regulations need to be watertight, inspections must be thorough, and the voices of residents need to be central to any decisions about housing and safety. Thousands of buildings across the country still have unsafe cladding, leaving residents in constant fear. And there's a sense that those responsible, whether it's corporations or government bodies, haven't truly been held accountable.

As professionals – whether in housing, construction, or even mental health – we all have a role to play. It's about asking the tough questions: Are we prioritising safety? Are we listening to the communities? Are we speaking up when we see something wrong? All these questions come into treatment and conceptualisation, and we need to answer them and do something with the information.

Grenfell showed us that ignoring warnings, cutting corners, and treating people as afterthoughts can have devastating consequences. But it also showed us the power of community who continue to fight for justice. As professionals and as a society, we need to honour their courage by ensuring something like this never happens again. It starts with listening, acting, and holding ourselves to the highest standards.

Every year I attend the Grenfell silent walk. If you are a professional and you work in areas of anti-racism, equity, 'equality' and human rights, you should be there. 

And with children seeking asylum, what needs to change there?

Humanity and anti-racism. Professionals should understand the unique challenges faced by refugee and unaccompanied minor children, such as trauma, language barriers, and cultural adjustment. These children often endure profound psychological distress and face significant obstacles in their daily lives. By being empathetic, flexible, and proactive in creating an inclusive environment, we can provide support. 

It's crucial to offer additional training on cultural competency and trauma-informed care. Such training will equip staff with the necessary skills to better understand and address the complex needs of these children. Moreover, recognising that refugee populations are often underrepresented in data and, consequently, in key discussions and reforms within the mental health system is essential. Advocacy for their needs requires continuous effort and dedication. 

While it is essential to focus on what our Integrated Care Boards can provide and prioritise, it's equally critical to address localised issues that can undermine broader initiatives. Even isolated challenges at the local level can significantly impact how the projection, prioritisation and implementation of children's rights for psychological safety.

What are your last thoughts? 

In the words of Audre Lorde: 'If you find a book you really want to read but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it.'

​Never give up and always let the work speak for itself. Somewhere within your core is a reason why you want change. Connect to your purpose and liberate others. These struggles echo globally today. The fight for dignity and humanity is universal.

Update:

Professor Suman Fernando sadly passed away after this conversation. Bhavna reflected further on his legacy and impact.

Professor Suman Fernando has left an indelible mark on the fight for racial justice in mental health. May he rest in peace and power. His unwavering advocacy for anti-racism paved the way for many of us in psychology and psychiatry, particularly those from Black and Brown communities. He fearlessly challenged institutional racism, rejecting an OBE in protest to a flawed Mental Health Bill that ignored systemic inequalities.

His work was more than theory: action, resistance, and change. He taught me that Psychology and Psychiatry cannot be neutral in the face of injustice; silence is complicity, and change begins with those who dare to challenge the system. We must actively challenge the systems perpetuating harm. Failing to address structural racism means failing the very communities that need us most.

Professor Fernando created space for us to exist in this profession without fear, and we must carry that forward. We stand on his shoulders and must ensure that his legacy is remembered and lived.

References 

Fernando, S. (2017). Institutional racism in psychiatry and clinical psychology (Vol. 17517893, No. 0). London: Palgrave Macmillan.

Channel 4 News. (2017, June 14). Akala: People died in Grenfell Tower fire [Video]. YouTube. 

Jung, C. G. (1930). Your negroid and Indian behaviour. In Forum (Vol. 83, No. 4, pp. 193-199).

Lorde, A. (1984). Sister outsider: Essays and speeches. Crossing Press.

Sennik, B. (2023). "It's that Internal Struggle": Grenfell Residents Lived Experience of Psychological Distress, Post-Fire, 14-06-17. An Interpretative Phenomenological Analysis(Doctoral dissertation, University of East London).