'I was always really interested in why people would act in deviant ways'

How did you become interested in psychology in the first place?

My interest was always in forensic psychology. Like many people, I became hooked on crime dramas and films like Silence of the Lambs. I was always really interested in why people would act in deviant ways and why people would break the rules. I wanted to try and understand behaviour and the factors that might be associated with it but from a compassionate point of view.

When I was at university studying psychology, I got the opportunity to do a forensic module and from then I knew that's what I wanted to do. I had my sights set on going into the prison service and I was able to do that through volunteering projects. While I was an undergrad, I worked with youth offending teams, and also with the council doing youth projects. 

Eventually, I got a psychological assistant job in the prison service and after that, I was able to do my forensic training and get chartered. I also got the opportunity to do some teaching and found I had a real passion for it. I was quite taken aback by how much enjoyment I got from supporting, educating, and sharing with others.

I gradually made the transition from being a practitioner to working as an educator and I got the opportunity to do my PhD looking at mental health services. I worked in the community with people who had been sectioned under the Mental Health Act and who were undergoing treatment through community, crisis or forensic teams. 

Part of the research was about engaging a broad range of people who have experienced being sectioned because disproportionately people from ethnic minority groups are more likely to be sectioned and most research on mental health services had a Westernised focus. After my PhD, I made the transition into academia.

I've worked in a number of universities in the northwest, until relocating to Birmingham in 2023. The job offer was far too exciting to not make the move for! I have set up a new psychology provision and it felt like the perfect time in my career, based on my practice, based on my previous leadership of a school as head of psychology and a teaching professor, to come to Birmingham and really make an impact in a different environment.

I know we've spoken in the past about your work at the University of Bolton and while you were there you had a focus on building skills and employability among your students. Is this something you'd like to bring to University College Birmingham?

Yes, 100 per cent! That's what has driven the new curriculum development here. It was a chance to really rewrite a psychology programme, and we've developed an array of threads throughout the programme to ensure practical skill developments are embedded in every module. We've had significant investment from the university; we now have a state-of-the-art lab, an experienced Teaching and Learning Technician who's also a practitioner and we're going to embed live practical experiments, not just traditional research modules. The classrooms can be modified to overlook the labs so we can do live research and skills development. We've got an observation suite and a VR suite; we really want our students to embrace the newest technology but also apply it to the real world.

When I've been designing the modules, rather than having a standard module, say, for social psychology, the module is called Working with Diverse Communities – so that will be social psychology theories, but we'll be looking at how that fits when you're working locally, regionally or internationally. As part of that, we've been engaging with employers, the council, and with practising psychologists to look at the skills they want our graduates to have. Knowing what they need and what the shortages are means we can embed these skills from the very beginning.

In terms of skill development in the first year we've got a mental health module that isn't just theoretical, we're embedding mental health first aid as part of that. We'll pay for it and students will gain a qualification which they can use within voluntary opportunities. Work-based learning will also be compulsory as part of the third year of the programme. The threads we've built into the course aren't just tokenistic modules, they've all been designed so that we're developing skills, and are teaching our students how to do the kinds of things they're going to need to do when they're working in the real world, in the diverse range of roles they might go into.

What has it been like for you moving from practice to academia and then into leadership roles?

I've had several changes of identity. As I mentioned I wanted to work in the prison service in my early 20s and there was never another route for me as far as I was concerned, but then I loved lecturing which I didn't expect. You stand there giving a lecture thinking, 'I'm not qualified to do this! I don't know everything!'

The focus on the real world has always been important for me. You also experience students coming to you with their own mental health problems – which are things you can deal with as a practitioner, but you have to remind yourself that that isn't your role. 

So setting boundaries is really important, and that did take me some time to get used to. Of course, you can always help students to get the best support, but it isn't your role to provide that. I very much see myself as an academic but I also really enjoy leadership roles – when I interviewed for this job I asked whether I could still teach. I'm working with the team at the moment developing the future curriculum and I will have a module I can teach sometimes. 

The balance does shift when you move into an academic management role, but I'll always have psychology as my background. It can help you with relationships with colleagues, it can help you with students, it can help you with ideas and planning. I've made that shift, but I will never not be a psychologist and it's always going to be an important part of my identity.

Are you planning to do work with the community in Birmingham?

Working with Birmingham as a city is something that's at the heart of what we all do here. We're developing skills in the region. I was really drawn here by all of the links UCB has with the community. I've secured some volunteering opportunities for our psychology students through various charities that work around food. We've also secured options for our students to go in and work in mental health secure units with forensic services from existing relationships.

Our curriculum is co-written with students and with employers which has made it so special to me. The links that some of my colleagues have are phenomenal. I recently had a meeting with Birmingham City FC talking about employment opportunities there for our students who haven't even yet started. Employability and skills come first here, they're not an afterthought, and that fits with my values and my passion so well. It's about creating graduates that are going to be really well-placed to support their region.

We know many psychology students don't end up working as psychologists, but there are so many employers who really do value a psychology degree, part of our broad offering will mean students don't feel pigeon-holed.