‘I want counselling psychology to be seen for its unique value’

Can you tell me a bit your background and what brought you into psychology? 

I was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, moved to the Isle of Man around five-years-old, and continued my schooling there. At A-level, or AS to be precise, I chose to study psychology because it sounded interesting. I found myself talking to friends and family about what I was learning. Understanding what it is to be a human and what we think we know was something I wanted to be part of. 

Because of this level of interest, I thought this would be good to do as a degree. At the time, I believed I would use this as an interesting universal graduate degree – I knew nothing about psychology as a career. 

In my second year as a psychology undergrad, I learned about Clinical Psychology. My university offered a 'straight through' programme, which meant you would do pre-doctorate modules in the third year, and then go straight onto the doctorate. I decided this was something to look into and began the typical voyage into collecting experiences necessary to progress to an Assistant Psychologist and potentially the infamous Clinical Psychology Doctorate.

And how did you come into counselling psychology?

While working as an assistant psychologist, I gained experience working alongside several trainee clinical psychologists.  At one point, we gained a trainee counselling psychologist or, as she called herself, a counselling psychologist in training. This piqued my interest, and I wanted to find out the difference between the two training routes and why they chose that route for themselves. 

I came to find there was not a vast difference in the training but some professional biases on how each could practice and where. I liked the idea I could extend placements so that I would feel more confident upon qualifying. I suggested to my supervisor that I might switch track from Clinical to Counselling – he thought it was a great idea and would support me to try and use a combo of study and annual leave to continue as an assistant psychologist if I got on.

In comparison to the Clinical Psychology application form, which at the time was a vast space to fill with whatever they 'might be looking for' each year, I found the application for Counselling Psychology to be a better fit for me. I felt my shoulders drop… I was already more at home in the words I wrote about why I wanted to train in this route. 

My most challenging year was the third year, as I had to do two placements at once, without any paid work. I relied entirely on my family for support back then, and I remember being acutely focused on securing a paid role as soon as possible after qualifying to pay them back. 

What was it about counselling psychology that you were drawn to?

My interest in counselling psychology has grown over the years. One of the things that I liked the most was the focus on understanding what underpins therapeutic models. This allows me to understand new thinking models, why they are supposed to work, and why cultural, philosophical, and spiritual sources influence non-western communities. It keeps me interested in humanity and allows me to translate into a scientist-practitioner when needed, as well as help others understand that we live in a world of social constructions. 

In case anyone is interested, I consider myself a critical realist: whilst I believe the lens we might observe the world from is socially constructed, those constructions have real-world meaning and consequences. This is perhaps what fundamentally aligns me with counselling psychology, though it also means I can see the perspective of other professions and how their view makes sense to them. It also helps me to be quite direct in my NHS roles when colleagues attempt to deconstruct diagnoses when the patient's real-world experiences require this label to have access to societal levelling. I love that this also works both ways; when the patient does not want a label and the service feels they must have it – why?

You currently work as a Consultant Counselling Psychologist in a CAMHS service on the Isle of Man. 

Yes. This is my third Consultant-level role in my career so far. Working on an island gives me some unique opportunities and challenges. Interestingly, the healthcare service here is quite used to having Counselling Psychologists, which I was pleased to hear about.

Working in a CAMHS service means that there is no real difference in what a Clinical or Counselling Psychologist would do. Over the years I've seen the psychology roles change in reaction to a depleting workforce and the emergence of the generic mental health practitioner. For psychologists, and other professionals like mental health nurses, it sometimes means that their unique professional skills can be lost. However, I have been lucky to encounter some amazing nurses, social workers, psychotherapists (especially creative psychotherapists) who manage to keep their profession alive as well as being part of the team.  This is my hope for counselling psychology too.

And you're part of a training team for the Post Graduate Diploma in Child and Young Person IAPT Therapy. Tell me about that. 

I trained in Interpersonal Therapy for Adolescents (IPT-A) just after my first year at CAMHS, where I was recruited thanks to 'backfill money' from the Post Graduate Diploma as part of what was then the new CYP-IAPT initiative. I was inspired by a mental health nurse who was doing the training the year before and was excited to bring this approach to the team. 

Thanks to a series of supportive managers at CAMHS and Anna Freud, I progressed from accredited therapist to trainee supervisor, and there were some potential pathways shown to us before graduating. As fate would have it, several years later, I was applying for a part-time role in the CAMHS service I now work in, and the job as Senior Practice Tutor came up with the same IPT-A team I trained with in London. As the role was mostly remote, I applied and got it! 

The role involves supporting students (like myself previously) in progressing through a Post Graduate Diploma which also helps them towards accreditation in IPT-A. Leading weekly practice tutor groups and training as a trainer can be challenging, but students are eager to learn, and I enjoy teaching. For 2025, I will be practising as a trainer-in-training for the new cohort – wish me luck!

You've recently been appointed as the Chair of the BPS Division of Counselling Psychology… what is your vision for the division and what do you hope to achieve as chair? 

One of the things I want to achieve is to find a way to make the BPS more appealing to my peers. There is a lot to offer and be engaged with, as well as opportunities for growth and development from the division and the wider BPS. 

By the end of my tenure, I would like more people to see the value of what they can bring to the BPS, and how the BPS can help them.

I hope for more fairness in training, from placements to course funding. I want counselling psychology to be seen for its unique value by others, as well as being better equipped to convey this to the public and professional networks themselves. 

Already, I can see some of the passion and spirit from people at different points in their psychology careers, and would like to make use of this to represent the Division better now and its possible future. 

Speaking more broadly, what is your vision for counselling psychology as a discipline and profession?

The future of counselling psychology has multiple opportunities for development.  Our clinical colleagues have the Clinical Associate in Psychology (CAP), and there are emerging career paths for Psychological Wellbeing Practitioners (PWP), Child Wellbeing Practitioners (CWP) and Education Mental Health Practitioners (EMHP), now registered with the BPS as part of the Wider Psychological Workforce Register.  I hope Counselling Psychology can continue with the independent route to registration with QCoP, as I feel it fits so well with some of the progression within psychology generally. 

I would like to see counselling psychology more embedded in schemes such as the Clinical Associate in Psychology programme, as we already contribute significantly to the supervision of those in training, as well as securing paid positions for these roles from our leadership positions within teams (speaking from personal experience). 

What needs to change? 

A few things. Firstly, I think we need to better connect with our psychology colleagues to help each other while preserving our identities. We also need services like the NHS to code us as Counselling, Clinical, and Forensic properly so we can better demonstrate the impact we have on these systems. 

We also need alternative funding routes into training. Wales and Ireland have already shown this is possible.

We also need drop any reluctance to apply for jobs advertised as for Clinical Psychology. You are qualified, you can do the job – so apply!

Brian, we've spoken about your journey and work. Tell me about your life outside of psychology. 

What life?! Well, sometimes it does feel that way. Having moved to the Isle of Man from London, I notice I seem to have more time with people, which is great. I have had plans to fully embrace the island life with sea dipping and paddleboarding, but so far, I have only dipped a couple of times, and the paddleboards remain in their box – next year!

As well as spending time with friends and family on the Isle of Man, I like to go back to London often to join my friends there for some novel theatre-interactive experiences, brunches, and festivals. 

I love visiting new places and learning about other cultures. My father lives in the USA, and when I visit him, I like to combine this with some mini travel adventure. At home, I can also be found bingeing the latest Netflix show or fan favourites to de-brief with friends and colleagues over – Married at First Sight is a guilty pleasure!

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