‘Counselling Psychology has a real ethical and political value base’

What brought you into the field of psychology?

I did an undergraduate degree in social psychology, and I was just very fascinated and interested in how people work, communicate, and interact. I then went onto do a PhD at the University of Sussex. It was on a fairly strange topic: the psychology of mask wearing. I was interested in the way that masks can transform us – this was long before Covid! I was also very interested in the use of masks in drama therapy.

At the same time, I thought I should do something a bit more practical, so I started doing counselling training, and found that really fascinating. I then went onto train as an existential psychotherapist… I was also teaching psychology at the time, and then later counselling. In the 2000's, I brought it all together by getting my qualification as a counselling psychologist, which I've continued with for the last decade or so.

What drew you to counselling psychology over other applied fields?

Well, it was partly pragmatic in terms of having done the training in counselling and then drawing that together, by pursuing the independent route within counselling psychology. The independent route is an alternative way that makes it possible to get qualified as a counselling psychologist without doing a specific course, though it can be just as demanding.

I do really love counselling psychology as a discipline, because like some other approaches in psychology – such as community psychology – it has a real ethical and political value base to it. Counselling psychology is based on a particular way of understanding and seeing human beings in a very respectful, humanising, and valuing way. I wrote about this in a paper that has become quite well-known in the field, 'Welcoming the other: actualising the humanistic ethic at the core of counselling psychology practice'.

The roots of counselling psychology are grounded in humanism and the work of Carl Rogers, which I always loved in my undergraduate years. It combines that humane and humanistic understanding of people with a rigour and a scientific methodology. For me, it was a lovely combination of that caring concern and respect with that humanisation; a way of understanding and working with people that really tried to maximise benefit and what we could do. Obviously, that's not to say that other forms of psychology don't also strive for that, but for me, I particularly found that in the field of counselling psychology.

You co-developed the pluralistic approach to therapy with Professor John McLeod; how did that come about?

John and I were both very immersed in the person-centred field. My initial training was in person-centred counselling, and John was also involved in the person-centred world, at the time, and we both loved it. We loved the relational focus of it and the emphasis on the empowerment of clients. But I think we also felt that what you might call the more classical non-directive approach wasn't necessarily what all clients wanted. Actually, we've done research since, which has consistently shown that a majority of clients do want structure, guidance, advice – as well as things like empathy and acceptance.

We felt that, to really be client-centred, which is what we both loved in the person-centred approach, what seemed important was to be able to be flexible, and to respond to the different things that different clients might want at different times. Obviously, that's within our own limitations, in that we can't offer everything to clients all the time, but within what we can offer, it seemed important to have that flexibility.

So we developed this approach, which we called the pluralistic approach. We distinguished, first, pluralism as a general way of thinking about therapy. This is a way of valuing different ways of working and appreciating that there are loads of different ways of helping clients; but, within that, we might practice in a specific person-centred, cognitive-behavioural, or psychodynamic way. And then, second, pluralism as an integrative practice that really focuses around collaboration, and where there's a lot of emphasis on shared decision-making with clients as the basis for practice.

Over the last few years, particularly, the pluralistic community has been growing… Windy Dryden and I co-edited the Handbook of pluralistic counselling and psychotherapy, and there seems to be a lot of interest in it within the counselling and psychotherapy fields. Counselling psychology has also been very receptive to pluralism, and I think it links very closely with the values of counselling psychology: that social justice dimension and the practice of counselling psychologists.

Much of your work relates to humanistic and existential, as well as pluralistic, therapies.

For me, they're very related. The humanistic approach is a set of values, which is around a deep respect for clients. Maybe it's better put as a question: How do we relate to our clients in deeply valuing and respectful ways? That includes, of course, trying to be as effective as we can; but also, it is about how we engage with clients in ways that are empowering, that take on board clients' voices, that are responsive to their particular needs and wants, and treat them with what you might call psychological equality?

'Counselling psychology has also been very receptive to pluralism'

That is, treating them as equally intelligible and able human beings – not someone that is less than we are. In other words, we're both human beings who, at times struggle with life, although the client is the one that's coming to us at that particular point with struggles, and that's the focus of the work. We're equal human beings of equal worth, trying to work together to sort out one of our problems.

Since 2007, I've been co-editing The handbook of person-centred psychotherapy and counselling, and also co-authored Working at relational depth in counselling and psychotherapy, which focuses on that experience of deep, profound connection within the therapeutic relationship. Existential values help to deepen that… existential thinking really emphasises that life is in many ways a challenge for all of us, that there's not a definitive division between the ones who are 'well' and the ones who are 'sick'.

There are some fundamental questions about being that we can all struggle with: What's the meaning of my life? How do I deal with issues like death? How do I accept the reality of my choices, my freedoms, and the fact that my choices affect other people? So, the existential approach emphasises that we're all in a similar boat.

So you're keen to integrate different approaches?

The first single-authored book that I wrote, Existential therapies, was an attempt to review the various different forms of existential therapy that are out there; and in 2015 I wrote a book, Existential psychotherapy and counselling: Contributions to a pluralistic practice, which outlines the way that existential therapy can contribute towards a wide variety of therapeutic practices. And then pluralism is a way of trying to relate empathically and flexibly to the individual client, and recognise also that their capacity and their strength contribute to knowledge. Pluralism creates this space where therapists can attune to and engage with the thoughts or preferences of their clients.

My most recent book, Integrating counselling & psychotherapy: Directionality, synergy, and social change, tried to not just integrate different types of therapies, but then also integrate it with more social justice perspectives, and to understand how we can create models and understandings of human beings that take into account the fact that prejudice, discrimination, homophobia, all have a real impact on people's lives.

'Some of our areas like social and emotional learning, non-violent communication, our different models and understandings of human beings – I think they have a lot to contribute to helping to forge a better world'

Most of our models, like cognitive behavioural therapy, person-centred, and psychodynamic, don't really conceptualise that. It's not that they deny it, but it's not at the core of the theories. Work like the Power Threat Meaning Framework in clinical psychology has made some really important steps in trying to address these issues, to put them at the heart of what we do as psychologists. I've taken a slightly different tact towards it but it's a similar project of trying to recognise the social dimensions, not just the intrapersonal ones.

What about empirical research?

Coming from a pluralistic stance I'm very mixed methods, and I've researched areas of clinical practice mainly related to issues of participation and social justice in therapy, and the broad dissemination of therapeutic practices.

So we did a big, ESRC-funded trial of school counselling called ETHOS, which we published in the Lancet Child & Adolescent Health; and I've researched areas like preferences and shared decision-making in counselling and psychotherapy and the development of a client preference inventory called the C-NIP. Goals in therapy has been another area that I've really focused on: from a client-centred standpoint, it seems to me essential that therapeutic work is oriented, first and foremost, around what clients want from it.

Are there any current or future projects that you're involved with?

The book I'm working on at the moment, Psychology at the Heart of Social Change: Towards a Progressive Vision for Society (Policy Press), is really taking my interest in the interface between psychology and social justice forward. It's for a progressive, non-psychologist audience about what psychology can contribute to progressive thought and action. Psychology has got an enormous amount to contribute to the field of politics and our kind of visions of what our world could be, so that's what I'm particularly interested in at the moment.

And some of our areas like social and emotional learning, non-violent communication, our different models and understandings of human beings – I think they have a lot to contribute to helping to forge a better world and we desperately need those visions and potential futures. Whether it's the climate change or the Ukrainian war – and in February 2022 we had a big online conference for therapists looking at the contribution we could make to peace there, see recordings here – I think psychology can play big part: not just in terms of the psychology of persuasion, but also in the kind of world that we think people can thrive in.

We've spoken about your work and career… tell me about your life outside of psychology?

So, I've got four children, and I like to spend as much time as I can with them. My youngest is 14, and he's decided he wants to be a neurosurgeon or a 'proper' scientist – he doesn't think psychology is a real science! My eldest is making films. My second eldest is at the University of Oxford doing politics and philosophy, so we have some great chats, and my third is also very interested in politics too. She's doing A-levels.

I live down in Brighton so it's a nice family environment, lots of shops and interesting places to wander around and go to. I spend time with my partner, which is really important for me; also going running, which has been a great way of dealing with stress over the decades. I'm hoping that, as I get older and things calm down a bit, there's more opportunities for other things, although I'm not sure what I'm going to be doing. Maybe a few less books, but I probably won't be trainspotting!

• More information about Mick Cooper's research and writings can be found on the University of Roehampton's website and at www.mick-cooper.co.uk.